Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sudan International University

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. I've completely ignored Northamerica1000's opinion as it's not based on policy. "Book sources may exist" can be said about anything. If you think they exist, do the work to find them. v/r - TP 12:24, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Sudan International University

Sudan International University (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

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There seem to be no books or news items discussing this institution, despite the claim that it was founded in 1990. Possible hoax? This does not seem to be the same as Sudan's International University of Africa, which has a different website Aymatth2 (talk) 02:37, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Africa-related deletion discussions. —Tom Morris (talk) 17:53, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 20:28, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

• I checked further. There are enough mentions on the web of people who have worked at the university or studied there to confirm that this private university exists. [1], [2] and [3] show that Dr Bakri Osman Saeed is President. But I cannot find anything online that discusses or describes the university, so it does not seem to be notable. I am not 100% comfortable with that conclusion though. Aymatth2 (talk) 20:37, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:01, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

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• Keep - verifiable, degree-awarding instituions have long been considered to be notable. African educational establishments generally have a poor Internet presence and time should be given to find local sources to avoid systemic bias. The nominator should be complimented on his search for sources and his refreshingly open approach. TerriersFan (talk) 17:32, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, well... I am thinking of starting my own university. Home study, very reasonable prices, excellent degrees on handmade parchment suitable for framing. In this case there does appear to be a physical school, but no evidence of any form of accreditation. Aymatth2 (talk) 19:36, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

• Keep - Perhaps book sources can further qualify notability of this topic. What user TerriersFan stated makes sense, that "African educational establishments generally have a poor Internet presence and time should be given to find local sources to avoid systemic bias." Wikipedia is intended to cover global matters, not just matters that are available on Google searches. Northamerica1000 (talk) 07:10, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

The "university" has a very professional-looking website, but in English only, which is strange. Every other university in Sudan has an Arabic main website and then maybe an English one, often poor quality. The website claims that it has been open since 1990, but the Sudanese Ministry for Higher Education and Research does not list this university. Check http://www.mohe.gov.sd/ in Google Chrome, accept "translate", scroll down and click on "Sudanese higher education" in the right-hand menu bar. Sudan International University is not in the ministry's list of accredited higher educational institutions. And it is not in other lists like [4], [5] or [6]. I have started a fair number of Sudan-related articles lately. This one has an odd aroma. Since there are no independent sources that say anything about the school, the article relies entirely on self-published material. I don't see that it qualifies for retention. If, after it was deleted, independent sources were found, it could always be recreated. Aymatth2 (talk) 13:59, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, v/r - TP 00:09, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

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• Delete I haven't been able to find enough reliable sources to confirm anything but its existence and administration: nothing about its reputation whatsoever. Our information should be based in reliable sources, with at least a chunk of it coming from outside the subject itself. This isn't the case here, and we shouldn't assume that these sources exist just because the university is located in a third-world country. ThemFromSpace 01:11, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

  Has anyone done a search for the college under its Arabic characters? There may be additional sources to be found there, for any bilingual Wikipedian to find. I would be open to changing my opinion if acceptable sources were found in Arabic (or any other language). ThemFromSpace 01:17, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

The current website and the draft new website are both English only. My guess is they are marketing to the families of ex-pats from places like Malaysia and Pakistan, and there will not be Arabic sources. Still, proof of notability in any language would be enough. I don't buy the "third world" argument. All universities and ministries have websites and there are online newspapers like the Sudan Tribune in Sudan as in most countries. Aymatth2 (talk) 16:00, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.